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Author Topic: Why don't big stacks call? DoN SnGs  (Read 2655 times)
7letters
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« on: November 03, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »

PokerStars Game #21731579304: Tournament #118213295, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2008/11/03 15:23:42 ET
Table '118213295 1' 10-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 3: GERPA (1350 in chips)
Seat 4: leproso74 (2360 in chips)
Seat 5: Cheeseman905 (4345 in chips)
Seat 6: 7letters (1360 in chips)
Seat 8: Reality81 (5225 in chips)
Seat 9: tigrooney (360 in chips)
GERPA: posts the ante 25
leproso74: posts the ante 25
Cheeseman905: posts the ante 25
7letters: posts the ante 25
Reality81: posts the ante 25
tigrooney: posts the ante 25
Cheeseman905: posts small blind 125
7letters: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 7letters [7h 9c]
Reality81: folds
tigrooney: raises 85 to 335 and is all-in
GERPA: folds
leproso74: folds
Cheeseman905: folds
7letters: calls 85
*** FLOP *** [Ts 5c 8s]
*** TURN *** [Ts 5c 8s] [Js]
*** RIVER *** [Ts 5c 8s Js] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
7letters: shows [7h 9c] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
tigrooney: shows [Th Tc] (three of a kind, Tens)
7letters collected 945 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 945 | Rake 0
Board [Ts 5c 8s Js 7s]
Seat 3: GERPA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: leproso74 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Cheeseman905 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: 7letters (big blind) showed [7h 9c] and won (945) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 8: Reality81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: tigrooney showed [Th Tc] and lost with three of a kind, Tens


I get lucky here but obviously, I'm calling regardless.
Why doesn't anyone else call? Cheeseman905?

You see this time and time again - big stacks that aren't prepared to put people out.

Ok, sometimes it may be the case that you make your stack and fold away to the cash,
(or you're busy elsewhere or whatever but) this guy was on the spot.

I'm not really a TILTer at the poker table - but the big stack dunces really get on my tits.  Smiley
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 02:11:29 PM by 7letters » Logged

Mars - the pink planet.
Lucky_Devil
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 03:07:25 PM »

If you know they're just gonna sit there and not call, you can always use that to your advantage and steal from them Wink
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Mars
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 04:27:30 PM »

The big stacks are one out of the money, why do anything that could possibly maybe result in them getting busted?

If tigrooney takes down the blinds here, his stack goes from 360 to 860 - still a micro stack given the blinds.  With your call, his potential stack goes to 945 - still not big.  Now add a big stack call, 300 more to the pot, and we're talking 1070 stack.  While this will still be a small stack, it does mean just a little bit more when he goes all in next time - his chips mean more.  The mid stacks will be less likely to call, and it would mean just a little bit more of Cheeseman's stack to make a call - which would move him from a safe big stack to a middle stack that may have to steal once or twice or get lucky (even if "getting lucky" means two other villains going at it and busting each other).

Long story short: It's the much safer move to fold his way through.  Being that there is no difference between who gets first and fifth money wise, there is no need for him to call with anything other than a premium (by premium I refer to pairs, Jacks and higher - if even that).
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jacksoco quick
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 05:02:16 PM »

big stacks dont wanna lose there stack so callin they dont have to cause they dont wanna lose chips. cause it buts them on tilt
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Lucky_Devil
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 06:14:34 PM »

I still think the big stack should call - I mean it costs him f*ck all chips and increases % chances of ending the tourney there & then.  I know exactly what 7 is saying & agree with him.
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Mars
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 07:05:17 PM »

I still think the big stack should call - I mean it costs him f*ck all chips and increases % chances of ending the tourney there & then.  I know exactly what 7 is saying & agree with him.

In a standard SnG or MTT setting, I'd agree - insta-call.  However, this is not a standard game, all you have to do is not get busted next and you win your money.  What this translates to is playing INSANELY tight-passive.  There is no need to throw away chips, leading to a potential meltdown.  Are the chances great that the big-stack will lose all his chips?  Of course not - but who cares if it takes a little extra time to get a guaranteed cash (as opposed to instant cash what..65% of the time here)?
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7letters
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 05:34:37 AM »

I think I think Cheeseman should call but my first post wasn't exactly clear.
The hand above wasn't wholly related to my point about big stacks in DoNs.

I see many situations where a small stack is allin..

Let's say one player calls the bet
for a negligible amount of his stack. Two big stacks sit behind and they'll fold.
Why?
We could put numbers to this or dig out some HH's but I'm sure you know what I'm saying.

The object of a DoN is to make the first 5. Why miss a chance to put an opponent
out when the odds are in your favour? A risk-reward ratio still applies
in Double or Nothing games and if the risk is so very small, then you should take it.


You used the hand above and imagined a scenario whereby the big stack is putting
his chances of cashing at risk.
There are only 6 players left in the above hand but
another scenario, is when the big stacks go to sleep, allowing a smaller stack to
accumulate chips . They may then find themselves at the bubble with a
fight on their hands.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 05:44:15 AM by 7letters » Logged

Mars - the pink planet.
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